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Post by sherlock on Jan 29, 2017 11:20:09 GMT 10
The following article is an interesting read. I suspect it will inspire much debate or generate simple argument. I'm still not 100% on the whole RAE; it exists statistically but I've seen younger players who are not fully developed excel in an age group up. They tend to have older brothers who they've had to compete against and they have this ability to take the physical challenge out of the game. They know what they are going to do with the ball before they get it and they have an innate sense of space (space = time). Kids need to compete but do they require competition? Should the coach that is educating the team coming 1st half way through the season be transferred to the team coming last - if points are kept (and we all know that adults know who the team to beat is - it's all we discuss.) Like, ask your child the question : "How did you go today?". 99% of them will respond with the result of the game. Look carefully and that was not the question; "How did YOU go today?" was the enquiry about personal performance not team result. Do we look favourably on the team that passes well, defends intelligently and are quick in their thought to solve problems yet lose to a team who has a big quick defender and an equally dominant striker? I've come to the conclusion that, in general, our development system is backwards and is influenced by people who have agendas that are not truistic to the statements that they make. We have private academies that offer tuition in parallel to the clubs. We then have a governing body that introduces their own form of an academy through offering licences for development programs attached to clubs; a form of income for both governing body and club/associations. Furthermore we have a governing body who issue statements to discourage clubs/associations from forming relationships with private academies only to have the threat of litigation through the avenue of "restraint of trade" volleyed back at them. Then have associations warn clubs in the same manner only to employ a private academy to operate the association's representative club (and provide their apparel). And there has been no mention of clubs/associations that conduct their own 'elite U6-U8' competitions which yield (the club I'm guessing as I would hate to think that only a few individuals benefit from this 'development' scheme.) I'm led to believe in the vicinity of $400K per season. To conclude, money (and the power it brings) is ruining the development process in this country. At the top level where selections are dominated by coaching staff who fear the loss of their job if their program could be gauged as being not effective due to lack of representative positions earnt. Through to the ability of a parent to pay money for extra tuition gaining a position at a club ahead of a player who chooses not to. So place governances on the private academies. Get rid of the licence fees (for SAP). Get clubs to talent identify and have the governing body reward the clubs for developing representative players and focus on employing full-time coaching staff at clubs. Surely this is a better way forward then what we are doing right now. Just a thought... changingthegameproject.com/our-biggest-mistake-talent-selection-instead-of-talent-identification/
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Post by platini on Jan 29, 2017 15:01:36 GMT 10
Agree Sherlock, I've seen too many players being selected as a "top talent " only to be ruined by coaching to win or very very poor player management. Youth football has become a cash cow for clubs and nothing for development. I'm sorry but too many chiefs have hung around far too long not allowing for change and innovation. It's simple we are third world when it comes to professional kids development.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 9:18:11 GMT 10
Sherlock,
Oh where to begin? Best from the beginning. RAE has its pros and cons and still not an effective measure to gauge kids in between ages so to speak. In my experience we DO NOT look favourably at the teams who try to play good football. The perception of a good development program particularly SAP is club results! I for one am different. I know i personally view the game differently from a coaching standpoint and am big on development. I've complimented some smart coaches many times in SAP age group on good football shown by opposing team rather than long ball to striker in offside position to score.
Our talent identification system is backwards. I know first hand of some kids who refused to go to AIS and then got earmarked as bad attitudes even though the AIS structure was not suited to their style of play. (i.e the Playmaker role). 2 of these boys are now playing professionally in Europe and were signed immediately? Our failures are due to the systemic flaws our governing bodies have from national and state level. We still rely on the 'Old Boys' to be in positions to decide peoples fate.
As for academies. I'm not against them as i know some good Coaches, the risk you run is who are the good coaches who care or treat your kid like $$$ however would we rely on academies if our grassroots programs were sustainable? These associations are the worst who have elite development for 6-8yr olds when their motor skills aren't even in tune with their brains yet. I cringe when parents tell me that they have to put their 5yr old in theses programs if they have any chance of making it.
The A league frustrates me when i see recycled players who have played at nearly every A league club in their careers and we still do not foster youth talent or are willing to give them a go. Some will rise to the top and others may not but at least we will improve the standards. My question is how do kids even get picked in representative teams anymore? Back in my youth days you were scouted and invited to trial and it was over 2-4 week trial.
Analytics are an important tool and part of the game we have no idea of here in OZ. All that matters is the W vs L column. there are so many metrics that can be applied for e.g how many passes completed, how many open runs made etc etc..This is what they do in Europe and South America to really gauge development. there may be some clubs who do this but i highly doubt it.
Sherlock once again we are on the same page. If only Australia took the plunge like Germany did 10yrs ago and recognised they were failing at youth level and completely re worked the system from grassroots to the pro's. Unfortunately we have our own political landscape and minefield that nobody is willing to stick their neck out for to change..
Kind of reminds me of the late great johnny Warren who over 30yrs ago identified the problems with the national team coaching setup and constantly cried out for the national teams and coaches to play a more South American style of play only to be ridiculed. Fast forward to today and now hes considered a visionary by those same critics....
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Post by tarzan on Jan 30, 2017 11:27:52 GMT 10
With the new ( ahhh I mean "old") brigade seemingly NOW back in charge of football decisions in NSW will it get better? Who knows, Rale Rasic could be our next Socceroos coach... [ Bring back the NSL ]
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Post by platini on Jan 30, 2017 20:23:30 GMT 10
Great posts by all. But when is the development landscape going to change.. Maybe never. So many talented kids will never get a chance. Just people at the top looking after themselves. Anyone got a large broom.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2017 12:11:32 GMT 10
All i ask for is specialist youth coaches to be involved in our system. Heck bring them from overseas. Give them a 5 year plan and watch how we will rapidly improve. Get those same coaches to run clinics for aspiring coaches to learn from etc..It's not difficult to create a framework.
The impossible lies in getting those who cannot see to open their eyes.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2017 12:13:52 GMT 10
All i ask for is specialist youth coaches to be involved in our system. Heck bring them from overseas. Give them a 5 year plan and watch how we will rapidly improve. Get those same coaches to run clinics for aspiring coaches to learn from etc..It's not difficult to create a framework. The impossible lies in getting those who cannot see to open their eyes. and you think the clubs will pay them???
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2017 12:21:19 GMT 10
4231,
I dont know where you think i'm implying clubs pay. This goes higher than a club. Our governing body need to work from the top down. With all the fees clubs pay to FFA, the coffers need to be revisited and funding dispersed elsewhere. It starts with educating and then sticking to the philosophy.
I only share information through my personal experience and have seen the difference when the focus is on developing youth and then the results transfer into the senior teams. The biggest misconception is that we no longer have the talent like the 'golden generation'. We still have plenty of talent, they just dont play or develop here anymore.
how does a nation define success in a footballing landscape?
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Post by tarzan on Jan 31, 2017 12:44:32 GMT 10
All i ask for is specialist youth coaches to be involved in our system. Heck bring them from overseas. Give them a 5 year plan and watch how we will rapidly improve. Get those same coaches to run clinics for aspiring coaches to learn from etc..It's not difficult to create a framework. The impossible lies in getting those who cannot see to open their eyes. Great in theory but example(s) from last year suggest: one training session per week instead of 3, additional costs charged, sacking and reinstatement mid year. Hardly a glowing example to follow...
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Post by directfk on Jan 31, 2017 12:46:40 GMT 10
I was involved with an association that hired and paid for a highly qualified coach to visit the local junior clubs and assist the coaches and offer advice. You would be surprised at how much resistance he came up against from know all local coaches who showed little or no respect to the man. Most people were good but some were outright rude and too difficult to deal with.
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Post by sherlock on Jan 31, 2017 19:28:55 GMT 10
All i ask for is specialist youth coaches to be involved in our system. Heck bring them from overseas. Give them a 5 year plan and watch how we will rapidly improve. Get those same coaches to run clinics for aspiring coaches to learn from etc..It's not difficult to create a framework. The impossible lies in getting those who cannot see to open their eyes. True but people will only import their mates to coach as they feel safe when they surround themselves with their friends... A wise old man once said "Successful people surround themselves with successful people." They are not threatened by those that they surround themselves with as the group tend to feed off each other as they pride themselves in becoming better coaches. Unfortunately coaches tend to be negative to each other here.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 8:31:08 GMT 10
Agree Sherlock, However something needs to be done. totally agree with minimal coaches helping each other out. I dont know why the negative attitude between educators because that is technically what we are? it's a sad state of affairs when an example of a highly qualified coach is helping out in an association and he's being disrespected. I dont understand why we have such a Tall Poppy syndrome when we really haven't achieved much. Anyway not my fight to have i suppose but as u can tell i am a passionate supporter of youth development.. Jose Peckerman who is regarded as one of the best youth coaches ever developed talent without results initially and then achieved the results over a 10year period. My point is we need a framework and stick with it then measure it. All i ask for is specialist youth coaches to be involved in our system. Heck bring them from overseas. Give them a 5 year plan and watch how we will rapidly improve. Get those same coaches to run clinics for aspiring coaches to learn from etc..It's not difficult to create a framework. The impossible lies in getting those who cannot see to open their eyes. True but people will only import their mates to coach as they feel safe when they surround themselves with their friends... A wise old man once said "Successful people surround themselves with successful people." They are not threatened by those that they surround themselves with as the group tend to feed off each other as they pride themselves in becoming better coaches. Unfortunately coaches tend to be negative to each other here.
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Post by realdeal on Feb 1, 2017 12:24:20 GMT 10
Funny you mention Jose Pekerman and agree one of the finest youth coaches..A few years ago before he took over Colombia as head coach he put an application to coach Australia and to oversee all the youth as well . you know what the brain surgeons at FFA told him ? Yep we give you the National team but not the youth as they are in safe hands...hahaha..Of course he told the FFA to shove it and took Colombia instead were he has done wonders at all levels Seniors and Youth...say no more ...
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Post by directfk on Feb 1, 2017 15:31:42 GMT 10
Pekerman had 2 faults which let him down. He was over qualified and can pick talent.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 7:47:57 GMT 10
Funny you mention Jose Pekerman and agree one of the finest youth coaches..A few years ago before he took over Colombia as head coach he put an application to coach Australia and to oversee all the youth as well . you know what the brain surgeons at FFA told him ? Yep we give you the National team but not the youth as they are in safe hands...hahaha..Of course he told the FFA to shove it and took Colombia instead were he has done wonders at all levels Seniors and Youth...say no more ... Realdeal, I wasn't aware about Pekerman interested in coming here. That just saddens me even more. Kind of like saying Wayne Bennett wants to coach your team and over see your setup at club level and you say Thanks but no thanks.. Now it just makes me wonder what our national teams would look like if he ran the show..
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