|
Post by tarzan on Sept 3, 2014 9:57:12 GMT 10
The term 'childhood' may seem like semantics but playing futsal as an eight year old is VERY different on a body than when playing as a fifteen year old. Twelve should really be the oldest to use futsal as a skill training tool. Common sense alone is enough to see the impact on a bigger body on such surfaces at such fast movements...enough to make a parent shudder. Interesting comment since a lot of Brazilians predominately only play futsal until their mid teens. I know a former A-League (and current Futsalroo) that didn't play outdoor till he was 18. “During my childhood in Portugal, all we played was futsal. The small playing area helped me improve my close control, and whenever I played futsal I felt free. If it wasn't for futsal, I wouldn't be the player I am today." - Cristiano Ronaldo "I started playing Futsal when I was 4 years old and most of the moves I use come from playing Futsal. I played Futsal until 13 or 14 years of age before I began playing regular soccer." – Robinho Finally Jurgen Klingsman has just mandated futsal for the 13-14 year olds academies. www.ussoccer.com/stories/2014/03/16/02/35/140129-academy-futsalNo one questions the benefits of playing in a small space and having plenty of touches - we all do that at every training session ( well I hope we all do??).....but I've not heard anything to suggest that playing on a hard surface is better than a softer one. I also suspect when some people are speaking about Futsal they are simply referring to small sided games ( not necessarily FIFA standard indoor on a hard surface). Again, common sense says hard surface is more demanding on the body than softer surface - irrefutable!!!
|
|
|
Post by tarzan on Sept 3, 2014 10:01:43 GMT 10
PS: I can't accept your comment that a professional player played Futsal up to 18 and no 11 v 11??? They are two very different games. Slight exaggeration I suspect?
|
|
jabrack
English Premier League
Posts: 217
|
Post by jabrack on Sept 3, 2014 10:02:41 GMT 10
Sorry that is the proverbial old wives tale. FIFA conducted a comprehensive study of injuries in the Futsal and Football World Cups: "the risk of a time-loss injury per player match was lower in futsal than in football" and "the location and type of injuries were similar between the two ways of playing football” Prof. Jiri Dvorak, FIFA's Chief Medical Officer Source: bjsm.bmj.com/content/44/15/1089.fullThere are a few flaws in that argument: 1)Comparing just one tournament against one other tournament is very limited and could not be deemed as conclusive. 2) I was comparing 5 a side on grass ( not 11 a side) to 5 a side on a hard surface....i have no doubt that playing on a hard surface would put greater strain on lower limbs than artificial or natural grass. 2) I was referring to youth football, where players are going through growth spurts and are much more susceptible to injury. 4) I know several parents who don't allow their kids to play Futsal because of previous history of impact injuries. 5) I note there is a qualification - "a time loss injury" so even this very limited study is limited in how it defines an injury. Having said that, no great problem with Futsal, just suggest the same game on grass would be better from both a development perspective and from an injury perspective. By the way if you think my arguments are flawed, take it up with Prof. Jiri Dvorak, FIFA's Chief Medical Officer. 1. It was injury data from multiple Futsal World Cups and multiple Football World Cups. IMO this is the most valid comparison. I can state with great certainty that the Futsal World Cup has the highest level of contact/aggression level. The foul threshold is much higher at the Futsal World Cup than in Australian futsal 2. Probably greater strain on harder surfaces, but outdoor produces much more violent contacts that are simply not tolerated in futsal. Have videoed over 1000 futsal matches and seen one broken leg (and this was at the Futsal World Cup). Seem many more in outdoor and personally watched a lot less games. 4. You can get injured playing any sport. I just don't see a lot of injuries at futsal. The main reason a player misses a futsal match is because they were injured at outdoor training/match. The best way to avoid injury is stay in bed! 5. The study (if you read it) was very detailed and looked at every scope of the injuries. I quoted the time loss stat because I think its the most relevant.
|
|
jabrack
English Premier League
Posts: 217
|
Post by jabrack on Sept 3, 2014 10:09:25 GMT 10
PS: I can't accept your comment that a professional player played Futsal up to 18 and no 11 v 11??? They are two very different games. Slight exaggeration I suspect? Sorry I was wrong. Its wasn't 18, it was 21. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_de_MoraesFernando is a friend of mine so I will contact him and double check this fact. Either way I do know for a fact many Brazilians play very little outdoor until quite late. "I started playing Futsal when I was 4 years old and most of the moves I use come from playing Futsal. I played Futsal until 13 or 14 years of age before I began playing regular soccer." – Robinho
|
|
jabrack
English Premier League
Posts: 217
|
Post by jabrack on Sept 3, 2014 10:16:10 GMT 10
|
|
|
Post by administration on Sept 3, 2014 10:19:26 GMT 10
All posts were merged as there is no need for two different threads.
|
|
|
Post by tarzan on Sept 3, 2014 10:54:38 GMT 10
Okay....to assist with reducing my frustration levels let's get back to basics. 1) is playing small sided games better for you on a hard surface or a softer surface? 2) if you're answer is a hard surface please explain why? The issue is not Futsal versus 11v11. The issue is indoor Futsal versus outdoor Futsal. [Brazillians often refer to Futsal when they are talking about the outdoor version. The backstreets of Brazil is not littered with indoor courts!!!]
|
|
jabrack
English Premier League
Posts: 217
|
Post by jabrack on Sept 3, 2014 11:33:56 GMT 10
Sure plenty of futsal is played outdoor in Brazil and Asia. Australia played an international on Copacabana Beach years ago in the rain! But in most of these situations its a hard surface played with a futsal ball. Futsal balls are harder, smaller and lower bounce.
Interesting you mention backstreet, because this is where a lot kids play futsal in Sth America.
“As a little boy in Argentina, I played futsal on the streets and for my club. It was tremendous fun, and it really helped me become who I am today” - Messi
I have no problem with outdoor futsal as long as its a reasonable hard/smooth surface and a proper futsal ball is used.
As for your specific question, my answer is a hard surface with a futsal ball. Why?
* Easier to control the ball. More time available to look up, rather than looking down * Greater emphasis on passing and evaluating options. Again this is factor of a smooth reliable surface versus inconsistent bounce on say grass * A futsal ball (vs a normal football) is significantly harder to kick well and promotes better technique * Having a hard surface makes it proper futsal where there is a true international and professional pathway. Most of the AFC nations have full year round professional futsal leagues. In the AFC, Australia is the third world as far as futsal is concerned.
Nothing wrong with small sided games on grass. Great game. Just rather kids play a proper regulated sport. FIFA had the option of making the game available on all sports and chose the harder surface option. I am sure they may have better rational than mine.
|
|
|
Post by bgroom15 on Sept 3, 2014 11:58:09 GMT 10
I've done more soft tissue injuries in outdoor than futsal. In fact, the only time I've ever been injured in futsal was copping it directly below the belt.
|
|
|
Post by tarzan on Sept 3, 2014 12:34:35 GMT 10
I've done more soft tissue injuries in outdoor than futsal. In fact, the only time I've ever been injured in futsal was copping it directly below the belt. Research based on one person...mmm interesting!
|
|
jabrack
English Premier League
Posts: 217
|
Post by jabrack on Sept 3, 2014 15:11:55 GMT 10
The issue was about injuries and the court surface! That was the only issue in debate.....the debate has moved around several times. THERE IS NO WAY THAT INJURIES CAN BE LESS when PLAYING ON A HARD COURT THAN when PLAYING THE "EXACT" SAME GAME ON A SOFTER ARTIFICIAL GRASS. THE ENDO MONDO!! If you play the exact same game on soft artificial grass, then you are not playing Futsal.
|
|
jabrack
English Premier League
Posts: 217
|
Post by jabrack on Sept 3, 2014 15:13:59 GMT 10
I've done more soft tissue injuries in outdoor than futsal. In fact, the only time I've ever been injured in futsal was copping it directly below the belt. Research based on one person...mmm interesting! Well I gave you research based on hundreds of games and players.
|
|
|
Post by bgroom15 on Sept 3, 2014 15:17:16 GMT 10
I've done more soft tissue injuries in outdoor than futsal. In fact, the only time I've ever been injured in futsal was copping it directly below the belt. Research based on one person...mmm interesting! I never claimed it to be research, I was only voicing my experiences.
|
|
|
Post by tarzan on Sept 3, 2014 15:21:45 GMT 10
The issue was about injuries and the court surface! That was the only issue in debate.....the debate has moved around several times. THERE IS NO WAY THAT INJURIES CAN BE LESS when PLAYING ON A HARD COURT THAN when PLAYING THE "EXACT" SAME GAME ON A SOFTER ARTIFICIAL GRASS. THE ENDO MONDO!! If you play the exact same game on soft artificial grass, then you are not playing Futsal. That's irrelevant to the discussion on injuries? Oops forget THE END!
|
|
|
Post by tyrion on Sept 3, 2014 21:00:44 GMT 10
Topic has gotten a little boring with all the quotes from famous ex players Btw were all these ex players famous for playing futsal on a hard court or 11 aside on grass..........
|
|